OutThink the Classics

Announcing ”OutThink the Classics,” and Series 1: Exploring Evil.

OutThink the Classics is a new podcast where my guests and I will activate your brain, and give you the historical and cultural context to decide which stories in pop culture have a place in your life today.
Join us for our first series called Exploring Evil: I’ll talk with experts in mythology, therapy, psychology, and more to show you how villains might be the key to exploring empathy and nuance with the kids in your life.
Produced by OutThink Media, where we offer context and conversations to help you evaluate and curate movies, TV, YouTube, and more. 
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The Wicked Witch of the West (Exploring Evil, episode 1)

We’re kicking off a podcast series called “OutThink the Classics,” part of my own personal quest to contextualize classic pop culture for modern families.
Our first series is “Exploring Evil,” where we will explore the concept of evil in classical kids’ stories. We start this journey with the Wicked Witch of the West– can't you just hear her theme music now?
Please welcome Family Therapist Lauren Mazzarese and Freelance Arts Manager Lia Kozatch to dig into the iconography and cultural impact of our favorite green witch, and discover some surprising parenting advice along the yellow brick road.
The OutThink Team
Learn more about OutThink Media
Cindy Marie Jenkins, Host & Creative Producer
Lia Kozatch & Lauren Mazzarese, Special Guests
Avi Glijanksy, Podcast Producer
Adam Emperor Southard, Theme Composer (also a fantastic photographer)
Annie Collins, PR & Marketing Manager
Angela Zhong, Logo Designer/OutThink Media
Maria Pasquarelli, Canva Coordinator
Produced by CMJ Communications LLC, DBA OutThink Media
Help us out! Share the trailer here.
Show Notes
1. “How the Bad Guys Teach Kid Empathy,” OutThink Media, 24 October, 2022.
2. Original illustration of Glinda, the Witch of the North, from L. Frank Baum’s The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, 1899.
3. Gale Sondergaard’s screen test for the role
4. “Margaret Hamilton Visits Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood,” Fred Rogers Productions, 31 October 2019.
5. Maguire, Gregory, Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch, 1995.
6. Holzman, Winnie and Schwartz, Stephen, Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West, 28 May 2003.
7. Coughlin, Sara, “Cauldrons, Broomsticks & Pointy Hats – A Real Witch Explains These Common Symbols,” Refinery 29, 29 October 2019.
8. “Using Kids’ Media to Teach Emotional Language: Charlie Brown,” OutThink Media, 5 November 2022. 
9. Francis, Ali, “The Myth of the Evil Stepmother,” BBC Family Tree, 21 November 2022.
10. Griffith, D.W. and Woods, Frank E., The Birth of a Nation, 1915. 
11. Van Der Kolk, Bessel, The Body Keeps the Score, 8 September 2015.
Read more
"The Marvels: When the Villain is the Hero of Their Own Story"
 
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Loki Part 1: Their Mythology, Comics Heritage, and Season 1 with Ben “Books Schwartz (episode 2, Exploring Evil)

“What do you do when other people have a story about you in their head, and they won’t let you change? They won’t let you do something that doesn’t fit the idea they have. They’ve already made up their mind about you. What do you do about that?”
- Ben “Books” Schwartz\
Welcome or welcome back to our podcast series called “OutThink the Classics,” part of my own personal quest to contextualize classic pop culture for modern families.
Our first series is “Exploring Evil,” where we will explore the concept of evil in classical kids’ stories. We started this journey with the Wicked Witch of the West– and now we get to play in the world of Norse mythology and my favorite trickster, Loki!
Please welcome Video Game Writer/Nomadic Storyteller Ben “Books” Schwartz, my friend from all over the world, who was the first person to introduce me to Kid Loki, so of course, I asked them to be my guest for the background and Season 1 of LOKI.
Housekeeping: Please forgive my Slack notifications sound. 
The OutThink Team
Learn more about OutThink Media
Cindy Marie Jenkins, Host & Creative Producer
Ben “Books” Schwartz, Special Guest
Avi Glijanksy, Podcast Producer
Adam Emperor Southard, Theme Composer (also a fantastic photographer)
Annie Collins, PR & Marketing Manager
Angela Zhong, Logo Designer/OutThink Media
Maria Pasquarelli, Canva Coordinator
Produced by CMJ Communications LLC, DBA OutThink Media
Help us out! Share the trailer here.
Show Notes
[original article] Jenkins, Cindy Marie, “What ‘The Bad Guys’ Teach Kids About Empathy,” JingKids International, 18 September 2020, https://www.beijing-kids.com/blog/2020/09/18/the-bad-guys-teach-kids-empathy/.
[updated article] Jenkins, Cindy Marie, “How ‘The Bad Guys’ Teach Kids Empathy,” JingKids International, 24 October 2020, https://outthinkmedia.com/2022/10/24/how-the-bad-guys-teach-kids-empathy/.
D’Aulaire, Ingri and Edgar Parin, D’Aulaire Greek Myths, https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/36027/daulaires-book-of-greek-myths-by-ingri-daulaire-and-edgar-parin-daulaire/
D’Aulaire, Ingri and Edgar Parin, D’Aulaire Norse Myths, https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/735325/daulaires-book-of-norse-myths-by-ingri-daulaire-edgar-parin-daulaire-preface-by-michael-chabon/ 
“Modern Wonka Doesn’t Work,” uploaded by Jack Saint, 22 August 2023, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogMM2zdGzIs 
Wint, @dril, https://twitter.com/dril?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor .
God, The Tweet of God, https://twitter.com/TheTweetOfGod .
Chuck Tingle, https://www.chucktingle.com/ .
Journey Into Mystery (1952-1966), Marvel, https://www.marvel.com/comics/series/2032/journey_into_mystery_1952_-_1966 
Sturlasom, Snorri, Heimskringla or The Chronicle of the Kings of Norway, produced by Douglas G. Killings, and David Widger, https://www.gutenberg.org/files/598/598-h/598-h.htm.
She-Ra and the Princesses of Power, produced by Dreamworks Animation, https://she-raandtheprincessesofpower.fandom.com/wiki/She-Ra_and_the_Princesses_of_Power_Wiki 
Ayala, Nicolas, “Why Loki Always Says He’s Burdened With Glorious Purpose,” Screenrant, 11 June 2021, https://screenrant.com/loki-glorious-purpose-quote-explained/ .
Good Omens, Amazon Prime, 2019-2023, https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1869454/ 
“Lokasenna,” Regius, https://sacred-texts.com/neu/poe/poe10.htm
Kogod, Theo, “How Kid Loki Joined Marvel’s Next Generation of Heroes,” CBR, 19 July 2021, https://www.cbr.com/young-avengers-kid-loki-team/ .
Johnson, Karl, The Loki Variations: The Man, The Myth, The Mischief, https://peregrinecoast.press/en-us/products/the-loki-variations-the-man-the-myth-the-mischief .
Read more
"The Marvels: When the Villain is the Hero of Their Own Story"
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Loki Part 2 with Dr. Drea Letamendi & Julia Washington (Exploring Evil, episode 3)

“You realize that it's not a parent's job to tell children who they are. It's a parent's job to meet their children where they are and help them grow into the person that they are, you could say, destined to become.”
-Julia Washington
Welcome back to “OutThink the Classics,” my own personal quest to contextualize classic pop culture for modern families.
We continue our first series, “Exploring Evil,” exploring the concept of evil in classical stories and how it relates to parenting and kids. Part 2 of Loki welcomes Julia Washington & Dr. Drea Letamendi to our library to connect Loki to parenting, psychology, and pop culture.
The OutThink Team
Learn more about OutThink Media
Cindy Marie Jenkins, Host & Creative Producer
Julia Washington & Dr. Drea Letamendi, Special Guests
Dr. Drea Letamendi (she/her/ella) is a clinical psychologist, media consultant, and two-time TEDx speaker with degrees and training from Cornell University, UCSD, and UCLA. For 3 years, Dr. Drea served as the Interim Director of the Resilience Center at UCLA known as “RISE.” As the Associate Director of Mental Health Training, Intervention, and Response for UCLA's Residential Life, she leads projects in the areas of resilience, crisis-response, and suicide prevention. Dr. Drea has a private practice as a behavioral health advisor for the gaming, visual effects, and entertainment media industries (including Warner Bros, Disney, and Riot games), and has written publications about the positive impacts of media storytelling on mental health, as covered in the Atlantic, the Guardian, and the Los Angeles Times. She created and hosts The Arkham Sessions, a podcast about the psychology of Batman and other pop culture narratives. Her latest publication with Springer is titled, The Force Awakens: Mindfulness-Based Cognitive Behavioral Therapy Using Star Wars.
Julia Washington is an artist, writer, and podcast host. In 2014 she was one of 14 writers for the inaugural community novel facilitated by the Stanislaus County Library. In 2017 her story 'That Face' was published in the Penman Review. She is the creator and host of Pop Culture Makes Me Jealous and Jelly Pops Book Club podcasts. Her hand-painted greeting card designs are not your mother’s Hallmark cards. Her hand-poured candles are literary-themed and come with a book recommendation. She currently lives in Modesto, California where she teeters between existential dread and watching too much television. You can find her on Instagram or TikTok @thejuliawashington.
Avi Glijanksy, Podcast Producer
Adam Emperor Southard, Theme Composer (also a fantastic photographer)
Annie Collins, PR & Marketing Manager
Angela Zhong, Logo Designer/OutThink Media
Maria Pasquarelli, Canva Coordinator
Produced by CMJ Communications LLC, DBA OutThink Media
Help us out! Share the trailer here.
 
Show Notes
Jenkins, Cindy Marie, “How the Bad Guys Teach Kid Empathy,” OutThink Media, 24 October, 2022.
“Loki,” Pop Culture Makes Me Jealous, Season 2, Episode 14, https://www.popculturemakesmejealous.com/listen/loki . 
“The Politics of Loving the Bad Guy,” Princess Weekes on YouTube, 24 February 2023, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JewRMqUErNg . 
Jenkins, Cindy Marie, “The Marvels: When the Villain is the Hero of Their Own Story,” OutThink Media, 11 November 2023, https://outthinkmedia.com/2023/11/11/the-marvels-when-the-villain-is-the-hero-of-their-own-story/ . 
“Finding Your Roots,” PBS, https://www.pbs.org/show/finding-your-roots/ .
Instagram and TikTok @thejuliawashington
Episode 168: Loki, The Arkham Sessions, https://drdreapsychology.com/thearkhamsessionspodcast .
Letamendi, Drea, “The God of Mischief Who Would be King: The Psychology of Loki, Fandom, 3 June 2021, https://www.fandom.com/articles/loki-psychology-mcu-marvel.
CPPA Students, “Peudaimonia: Positive Psychology Series,” Medium, 20 July 2021, https://cppastudents.medium.com/peudaimonia-positive-psychology-concept-series-91da936944a2 
 
 

Studio Ghibli’s ”The Boy and the Heron:” When a Master Paints Himself as the Villain (Exploring Evil episode 4)

“I don't intentionally make deep movies.”
-Hayao Miyazaki
Welcome back to “OutThink the Classics,” my quest to contextualize classic pop culture for modern families.
We continue our first series, “Exploring Evil,” exploring the concept of evil in classical stories and how it relates to parenting and kids. Episodes 1-3 discussed the Wicked Witch of the West (and Auntie Em) and just finished Loki Seasons 1 and 2. Now it’s time to explore the renowned Studio Ghibli, the man behind its success and impact on our culture, and why he cast himself as the villain for his last film.
THE BOY AND THE HERON  opening December 8
Synopsis: A young boy named Mahito, yearning for his mother, ventures into a world shared by the living and the dead. There, death comes to an end, and life finds a new beginning. Mahito’s guide is part-heron, part-man, and cunningly juggles lies and the truth. The boy makes new friends, reunites with his mother, and meets the world’s creator, the Granduncle.“The Boy and the Heron” is a fantasy film with an element of semi-autobiography. Its Japanese title, “Kimitachi wa Do Ikiruka” (published in Japan by Shinchosha), literally meaning “How do you live?”, is borrowed from an eponymous novel by Genzaburo Yoshino that filmmaker Hayao Miyazaki was given in his youth by his mother. What’s more, certain events from Miyazaki’s childhood are depicted in this new animated feature for the first time ever.
 
The OutThink Team
Learn more about OutThink Media
Cindy Marie Jenkins, Host & Creative Producer
Avi Glijanksy, Podcast Producer
Adam Emperor Southard, Theme Composer (also a fantastic photographer)
Annie Collins, PR & Marketing Manager
Angela Zhong, Logo Designer/OutThink Media
Maria Pasquarelli, Canva Coordinator
Produced by CMJ Communications LLC, DBA OutThink Media
Help us out! Share the trailer here.
 
Show Notes
Jenkins, Cindy Marie, “How the Bad Guys Teach Kid Empathy,” OutThink Media, 24 October, 2022.
YouTube Playlist of Hayao Miyazaki Research, https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLL2ZjKolsEExljGk3g7SpchD3ViuFb_z2&si=7ZDMOoIvC8DSYiGk 
 
Read more
OutThink the Classics, all episodes: https://bit.ly/OutThinktheClassics 
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Willy Wonka, Roald Dahl, and Separating the Art From the Artist (Exploring Evil episode 5)

“Daddy gave joy to millions of children but I was dying inside.”
-Lucy Dahl
“Just because it’s on the printed page doesn’t mean it’s the only way to think.”
-Madeleine Mager Deliee
Welcome back to “OutThink the Classics,” my own personal quest to contextualize classic pop culture for modern families.
We continue our first series, “Exploring Evil,” exploring the concept of evil in classical stories and how it relates to parenting and kids. We’ve walked the yellow brick road, time jumped with The TVA, Traveled between the world of the living and the dead, and now, it’s time to visit a chocolate factory.
Please note that when we discuss the Oompa Loompas: OutThink Media follows the writing guidelines for inclusion set forth in Respect Ability: “Appropriate terms include little person, person of short stature, dwarf or LP, though it is most respectful to refer to someone just by name. The word “midget” is considered highly offensive. A little person may choose not to identify as a person with a disability or part of the disability community.”
 
The OutThink Team
Learn more about OutThink Media
Cindy Marie Jenkins, Host & Creative Producer
Madeleine Mager Deliee (Special Guest) is an Educator, mom, and writer in the Washington D.C. area.
Avi Glijanksy, Podcast Producer
Adam Emperor Southard, Theme Composer (also a fantastic photographer)
Annie Collins, PR & Marketing Manager
Angela Zhong, Logo Designer/OutThink Media
Maria Pasquarelli, Canva Coordinator
Produced by CMJ Communications LLC, DBA OutThink Media
Help us out! Share the trailer here.
 
Show Notes
Deliee, Madeleine, “ ‘Fosse/Verdon’ and the Question of the Genius Pass,” Shondaland, 24 April 2019, https://www.shondaland.com/watch/a27228016/fosse-verdon-and-the/ .
Ground News, https://ground.news/
Jenkins, Cindy Marie, “How the Bad Guys Teach Kid Empathy,” OutThink Media, 24 October, 2022.
(2013). Alston, Ann & Butler, Catherine, eds. 2012. Roald Dahl. https://core.ac.uk/download/481858497.pdf
Jenkins, Cindy Marie, “Oakland’s Lynchings,” VoxPopuli Winter Garden, 10 March 2022, https://www.wintergardenvox.com/post/oakland-s-lynchings .
Jenkins, Cindy Marie, “Teaching Kids About Consent: The Cat in the Hat,” CindyMarieJenkins.com, 2 June 2022, https://www.cindymariejenkins.com/my-portfolio/2022/6/2/teach-kids-about-consent-the-cat-in-the-hat .
Lamadrid, Amanda, “Very Uncomfortable: Hugh Grant Gets Brutally Honest About Filming Wonka As An Oompa-Loompa,” ScreenRant, 2 December 2023, https://screenrant.com/wonka-movie-hugh-grant-oompa-loompa-experience-uncomfortable/ .
Satrapi, Marjane, “Persepolis, The Story of a Childhood,” Penguin Randm House, 1 June 2004, https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/160890/persepolis-by-marjane-satrapi/ .
Sherwood, Harriet, “Roald Dahl museum acknowledges author’s antisemitism,” The Guardian, 19 July 2023 https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/jul/19/roald-dahl-museum-acknowledges-authors-antisemitism .
Vernon, Hayden, “Roald Dahl books rewritten to remove language deemed offensive,” The Guardian, 18 February 2023 https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/feb/18/roald-dahl-books-rewritten-to-remove-language-deemed-offensive .
Read more
“Wonka, MrBeast, and Clickbait Philanthropy”

How the Grinch Stole His Own Legacy: Dr Seuss (Exploring Evil episode 6)

“[Seuss] is only a reference. He has no impact on my artistry. He’s just a part of history. Now I move forward with other people that are more current, that allow me to tell stories differently, within the context of now. Was he a part of my life? Absolutely. But it is a historical moment now.”
-Chil Kong
Welcome back to “OutThink the Classics,” my own personal quest to contextualize classic pop culture for modern families.
We conclude our first series, “Exploring Evil,” having walked down the yellow brick road, time jumped with The TVA, traveled between the world of the living and the dead, and now, visited a chocolate factory, and now it’s time to visit Whoville
Please note that we discuss xenophobia, racism, WWII, Japanese internment camps, and grooming in this episode
 
The OutThink Team
Learn more about OutThink Media
Cindy Marie Jenkins, Host & Creative Producer
Chil Kong (he/him)began his career in theater garnering multiple awards for his innovative reimagining of American classics and developing groundbreaking new works as artistic director of theater companies in Boston, San Diego, Seattle, and in Los Angeles as the Co-Artistic Director of the critically acclaimed Lodestone Theatre Ensemble. After a successful career in theater, Chil was tapped as the creative director of a film fund that focused on English-based stories for the Asian market. He returned to his hometown in the DC area as the Artistic Director of Adventure Theatre and helmed the nationally recognized theater through COVID. He recently returned to TV to focus on the premiere of BOSSY BEAR on Nickelodeon, an animated TV show centered around two Korean American characters.
 
Lauren Mazzarese (she/her) is a Licensed Professional Counselor who has been working as a therapist for the past 10 years. In her practice she focuses on several areas including substance abuse, trauma, LGBTQ+ issues, anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder and ADHD. Part of her work with her clients often involves working with parents to address the mental and emotional health of their children. Lauren also has a background in theatre and spent several years performing on stage as well as teaching acting and music. She enjoys being able to incorporate many of the theatre skills and activities she learned in her first career into her therapeutic practice. 
Avi Glijanksy, Podcast Producer
Adam Emperor Southard, Theme Composer (also a fantastic photographer)
Annie Collins, PR & Marketing Manager
Angela Zhong, Logo Designer/OutThink Media
Maria Pasquarelli, Canva Coordinator
Produced by CMJ Communications LLC, DBA OutThink Media
Help us out! Share the trailer here.
Show Notes
“Baby it’s cold outside-Liza Minnelli and Alan Cumming,” uploaded to YouTube by Lizawithaz1246, 22 November 2009, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhR3j7l_wTo. 
Editors, “Dr Seuss: The Story Behind ‘The Cat in the Hat’,” Biography.com, 4 June 2020, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhR3j7l_wTo. 
Caruso, Skyler, “A Timeline of Kevin Spacey’s Controversies, as He Faces Sexual Assault Trial in New York City,” People, 06 October 2022, https://people.com/tv/kevin-spacey-controversy-timeline/.
Chiang, Desdemona, “Why The Mikado is Still Problematic: Cultural Appropriation 101,” Howlround Theatre Commons, 08 October 2015, https://howlround.com/why-mikado-still-problematic.
Complexly, https://complexly.com/. 
Jenkins, Cindy Marie, “How the Bad Guys Teach Kid Empathy,” OutThink Media, 24 October, 2022.
Jenkins, Cindy Marie, “Teaching Kids About Consent: The Cat in the Hat,” CindyMarieJenkins.com, 2 June 2022, https://www.cindymariejenkins.com/my-portfolio/2022/6/2/teach-kids-about-consent-the-cat-in-the-hat .
McLaughlin, Rhett, “Thoughts on Confederate Statues from a Southern White Male, 17 August 2017, https://medium.com/@rhettmc/thoughts-on-confederate-statues-from-a-southern-white-male-b81a2693113d. 
“My Mister (2018),” My Drama List, https://mydramalist.com/25172-my-ajusshi. 
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Bandit Dads: The Good, The Bad, and the Pop Culture Dad (an Out Think the Classics Minisode)

"The role models, we just didn't have a whole lot....I wanted to be present."
I'm lucky; I have a dads' group. I have a group of dads that I've been with for sixteen years. We started when the kids were 19 months old, and we went through fatherhood together, and we continue to do that....which means I have a group of guys to help mentor me through....That support and that mentorship, that's huge."
-Shannon Carpenter
“When we started watching Bluey, I was transfixed. I was so excited to see that kind of parenting reflected in a mass media outlet in that way, to just see that kind of idea reflected back and know there are people out there who take this more fun and loose approach to this kind of parenting. I remember screaming, 'This is a documentary!'”
-Dan Jenkins
Welcome back to “Out Think the Classics,” my own personal quest to contextualize classic pop culture for modern families.
After our first series of Out Think the Classics, Exploring Evil, we ventured on to minisodes around representation and love in pop culture. We're thrilled to begin with an exploration of Dads, with special guests Shannon Carpenter (Author and Stay-at-Home-Dad) and Dan Jenkins (Creative Director, themed entertainment). We discuss:
Carpenter and Jenkins' role models as Dads
Dads in pop culture who were good role models and not so great
How Bluey and more modern representations feel more like their own Dad styles
"Dads just do it different," what that means, and how it plays out in daily life
Where can Dads go for community?
Up Next
Out Think the Election, a 4-part podcast series on the history of media's role in elections, media literacy, and dialogues around the the hot topics your family will face this year.
Subscribe to get a sneak peek of our next series Out Think the Election! 
The Out Think Team
Cindy Marie Jenkins, (she/her), Host & Creative Producer

Shannon Carpenter (he/him) is the author of The Ultimate Stay-at-Home Dad Manual and is a graduate of the famous Second City, where he refined his humor writing to capture the attention of audiences everywhere. Whether writing social satire, essays, or books, he is always able to find your funny bone and leave you with a lasting impression. 
"If we can change a tire, we can change a diaper."
He has appeared on Good Morning America, CNN, MSNBC, The Wall Street Journal, Slate, NPR, Forbes, The Atlantic, and numerous other publications. Redbook magazine has named him as one of America’s “Adventure Dads.” Finally, BuzzFeed recognized him as one of the funniest women of the week in 2020, which was weird because he is not a woman. However, he is very funny.
Dan Jenkins (he/him) is my own partner, and I don't use that term lightly. He's a Creative Director in the themed entertainment industry, and our kids refer to him as "The Fun One."
Avi Glijanksy, Podcast Producer
Adam Emperor Southard, Theme Composer (also a fantastic photographer in Michigan)
Annie Collins, PR & Marketing Manager
Angela Zhong, Logo Designer/Out Think Media
Maria Pasquarelli, Canva Coordinator
Produced by CMJ Communications LLC, DBA Out Think Media
Help us out! Share the trailer here.
Show Notes
"A Goofy Movie: A Staple of Black Culture | READUS 101," La'Ron Readus, 9 Feb 2022, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFpidaNMGsA.
Bluey
Turf Valley Show
Mr. Mom trailer (1983)
Listen to Episodes 1-6 of "Out Think the Classics" (Exploring Evil)!
Subscribe to get a sneak peek of our next series Out Think the Election!